Mid-afternoon. You found the earliest Schick (your mother’s great, great grandfather) was Andreas Schick born about 1810 in Hessen, Germany; he died 28 April 1870 in Westerville, Ohio. The earliest Freeman (your mother’s great grandfather) was Charles Freeman; born 25 March 1811 in Morris City, New Jersey and died 26 April 1891 in Delaware (City), Ohio. His wife, Elizabeth Closson was born 8 April 1818 in Ohio; she died 12 November 1892 in Delaware, Ohio. They had twelve children which you listed. The son, Charles, was your mother’s great grandfather.
I felt it was important to at least list them in this separate Freeman/Schick branch. So many children; four died within the first year or so. The names and dates give me renewed perspective and pause. I knew the great aunts personally; I have not written their names in years. The size of the Place of the Dead must be overwhelming, or it would be if human beings were only nouns.
Yes. This is why a noun is not accurate when you speak of the species as groups and individuals. You have to think in another form of reference. Later, dude. Post. – Amorella.
Yesterday. The earliest ancestor on the Orndorff side is Henne Zu Ohrndorf born about 1600 in Hof Ohrndorf, Freudenberg; he died in December 1662 also in Hof Ohrndorf, Freudenberg. His spouse was Margaretha Schneider; born 4 December 1617 in Bushen, Nassau- Siegan. She died 1 January 1672, also in Bushchen, Nassau- Siegan. Her father was Jacob Schneider who was born about 1590 and died about 1650.
I decided to look up Nassau-Siegan on Wikipedia, this is what I found, that adds an interest to those times and what Mararetha might have witnessed.
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The name Siegen comes from the possibly Celtic river name Sieg. It is, however, unclear whether there is any relation between this name and the Celtic-Germanic Sicambri (Ger. Sugambrer) people, who in pre-Christian times lived in parts of North Rhine-Westphalia. The first documentary mention of the place called Sigena dates from 1079. The city's history is markedly shaped by mining, which locally began as far back as La Tène times. Bearing witness to this longtime industry are the many mines that can be found within city limits.
In 1224, Siegen is mentioned as a newly built town whose ownership was shared by the Count of Nassau, Heinrich the Rich, and Engelbert II of Berg, Archbishop of Cologne after the latter transferred one half of the ownership to the former. Moreover, there is proof that the Oberes Schloss ("upper stately home") was already standing at this time. On 19 October 1303, the town was granted Soester Stadtrecht, or Soest town rights. The town remained under the two overlords' joint ownership until 1 February 1381, only then passing fully into Nassau hands.
In the 16th century, the town of Siegen bore a formidable defensive look. It was surrounded by mighty walls with 16 towers and three town gates, and was home to a great castle. The town was stricken several times by townwide fires. Documents record such fires in 1592, and from 10 to 20 April 1695. -- Wikipeda
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If I remember right the Sicambri tribes trace back to ancient Troy, at least in legend. The area of Henne’s Freudenberg according to Wikipedia:
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The town of Freudenberg in its current form came into being through municipal reform on 1 January 1969. Into it the seventeen formerly self-standing municipalities of Alchen, Bottenberg, Bühl, Büschergrund, Dirlenbach, Freudenberg, Heisberg, Hohenhain, Lindenberg, Mausbach, Niederheuslingen, Niederholzklau, Niederndorf, Oberfischbach, Oberheuslingen, Oberholzklau and Plittershagen were merged into one.
The oldest constituent communities are most likely the two that were both mentioned in documents in the 11th century, namely Plittershagen and Oberholzklau in 1079. Freudenberg is known to have been an Amt and court seat as of the early 15th century. The village and the castle of Freudenberg had their first documentary mention in 1389.
The castle was founded over the Weibe Valley together with a settlement by the Counts of Nassau as a corner post of their domain. Count Johann IV of Nassau, Vianden and Diez gave the Freudenberg townsfolk their "freedom rights" on 7 November 1456. This was a kind of minimal town rights, but the document bestowing this distinction upon the town is taken as evidence of town rights being granted Freudenberg. Documents give clues that Freudenberg was established quite early on as a "Flecken", or market town. The historic town core is even still called Alter Flecken (alt means "old"; –er is a grammatical inflection).
In 1540, both the castle and the town were heavily damaged by a fire. On William the Rich’s orders, there came into being about the mid 16th century new building works. The market town was given a new town wall with four gates. In the northwest, the Hohenhainer Tor was built, in the northeast the Weihertor, in the southeast the Braastor and in the southwest the Schultor (Tor means "gate"). However, owing to yet another town fire on 9 August 1666, the town was once again laid waste. Prince Johann Morilz von Nassau-Siegen built the town anew, using much the same layout, planned in 1540, as had stood before the fire. The castle, however, was not restored, and to this day, all that can be seen of it are a few wall remains. -- Wikipedia
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This is good stuff, a personalized history that covers more than a set of great grandparents. Why do people think history is so boring? Human beings are hardly boring when you look at them as a species, well, that’s my opinion.
These little insights add dimensions to the books and blog alike. Since you are on the orndorffs, go to the earliest of the Hubball’s, your oldest line and we can see what went on back in those days – one bloodline of hundreds that are traceable by many of European descent. – Amorella.
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Hugo Hubold, born abt 1040 at Ipsley, Warwickshire; he died about 1105 at Ipsley. Hist title was Lord of Ipsley Mannour, Warwickshire, England.
The first recorded Hubold as Lord of the Mannour at Ipsley. Recorded in K. William’s Domesday book of 1068. A facsimile of the Hubold references in the Domesday book is in the Walter Hubbell book. Dugdale mentions him as ancestors of the Hubands of Warwickshire and Derbyshire.His records of holding land at Ipsley, Warwickshire, England before the Norman conquest. This same land was in the possession of his descendents at Ipsley in the direct male line, passing to the eldest son of each succeeding generation until November 10th, 1730, when the direct male line became extinct. This Hugo Hubbald was the founder of the Hubball Family in England and the Hubbell Family in America. p. 185, History of the Hubbell Family by Walter Hubbell, The Scientific Press, Robert Drummond and Company, Brooklin, N.Y. 1915.
The surname Hubbald is often found in the ancient records as Hubaldus, Hubaud, Huband, and Hubant in Norman French; and even as Ubald in Saxon during the time of Edward the Confessor (1004-1066). Hugo held land in Bedfordshire of Osbern, son of Richard in 1086. They also had land at Twyford, Derbyshire and at Stoke, in Surrey Co. A monk named Hubald (or Hucbald) was a poet and wrote music in a monastery in the 10th century.
“Facsimile of a record of his land in Bedfordshire as well as his full name, ‘Hugo Hubald: Eeslei.’ Domesday Book or The Great Survey of England of William the Conqueror, A.D. MLXXXVI.” Photozincographed, by Command of Her Majesty Queen Victory, at the Ordinance Survey Office, Southhampton - Col. Sir H. James, Director. Copy is from the British Museum. The Tower. London, made for this work in 1914. p. 4. . . .
This Hugh, who also appears to have held other lands according to Domesday records, seems to have been the ancestor of the later Hubands of Warwickshire. From this Hugh descended William Hubold (sometimes written Hubaut) who was living in the reign of King Stephen in 1140 and Hugh Hubold, his son, who held the Manor of Ipsley in 1189.
In 1236, one Sir Henry Hubald is recorded as being taxed for “one knight’s fee” inIplsey, and this same gentleman was one of those involved in “The Barons’ War” helping in the siege of Kenilworth Castle against the King in 1245. As a result of this action, his manor of Ipsley and his other lands were seized. However, this treason was purged by a decree known as the “Dictum de Kenilworth” and in 1261 he was made a Commissioner for GAOL Delivery at Warwick, a position in which he was still to be found in 1269,1270 and 1271. He also established the right to hold a Court Leet at Ipsley.
His son and heir became Sir John Hubald of Ipsley who married Margaret, the daughter of Sir William Lucie of Charlecoate in Warwickshire. They appear to have had five sons: John, who served in the wars in Brittany; William, who served in those in Gascoigne; and also Thomas, Robert and Geoffrey.
In 1342, John Hubald was employed with others in the service of King Edward III in Wales for which he had special letters of protection, and three years later, he became a member of the commission raised to inquire what “persons were seized of lands in Warwickshire, from the yearly value of £ 5 to £ 1000 and to certify the same.” The following year, he received a military summons to attend the King in the French wars and was given the responsibility for providing arms, horses and archers from Warwickshire. At this time, the stone church was nearing completion and it was dedicated to St. Peter in 1348. The oldest of the church bells was cast circa 1340.It is 2 feet 7 - 3/4 inches in diameter and weighs 6 hundredweights. It is known as the Royal Bell since it has a coin of the reign of King Edward III cast into it.
This John Hubald was succeeded at his death by his eldest son, also called John Hubald, who, in 1356, was one of the knights of the shire in the parliament held at Westminster. He, in turn, was succeeded by Thomas Hubald, who, in 1379 in the reign of King Richard II was recorded as being a commissioner responsible for assessing a subsidy for Warwickshire.He was the father of Richard Hubald, who ranked amongst the persons of note in Warwickshire in 1434 in the reign of King Henry VI. He appears to have made “oath for observance of certain articles concluded in the parliament then holden”. His coat of arms is described simply as “sable, three leopards’ faces.”
A Thomas Hubaud has been recorded during the reign of King Edward IV in 1461 although little is known of him, and he was followed by Richard Hubaud who flourished in the time of King Henry VII. He married Anne, the daughter of Thomas Burdet of Arrow, Alcester. Their son, John Huband, of whom mention was found in 1530 was succeeded by Nicholas Huband Esquire, who married Dorothy Danvers, daughter of Sir John Danvers of Calthorpe and Waterstock in Oxfordshire. Dorothy was co-heiress with her two sisters, Ann and Elizabeth to their father’s estate. Anne married Reginald Digby, Esquire of Coleshill, Warwickshire, and Elizabeth married Sir Thomas Cave of Stanford.
There is evidence of Nicholas and Dorothy Huband to be found in St. Peter’s Church. On the north side of the chancel can be found an incised alabaster slab which once formed part of their tomb. This shows an effigy of the Knight and his lady with the small effigies of their fifteen children, eight sons, and seven daughters, along the bottom edge. Between the heads of Nicholas and Dorothy is an angular shaped shield showing the arms of Huband. The effigy of Nicholas represents him in armour, bare-headed, with his hair combed straight down and cut round in the peculiar fashion introduced towards the end of the fifteenth century. The armour consists of a breastplate with a short skirt of taces to which are attached angular shaped tuiles which cover the upper part of the thighs. The shoulders and arms are also protected. The hands are bare and joined on the breast. A plain narrow belt, buckled in front, crosses the body diagonally from the right hip to the left side where the sword is suspended. His feet rest on a couchant and collared dog. Dorothy appears on the left side of her husband wearing an angular shaped headdress after the fashion introduced towards the close of the fifteenth century, Her dress consists of a high bodied robe, tied in front, which gradually opens down the skirts revealing a petticoat. The sleeves are puffed at the shoulders and hang in what was known as “demi-cannon” sleeves. These are ornamented and finish at the wrist in ruffles. There is a turn down collarat the neck. Her shoes are broad toed but her feet do not rest on the dog. Her hands, too, are joined on the breast. The effigies of the children show the males clad in long gowns and the females in headdresses and gowns similar to that of their mother, The inscription, now sadly partially eroded, was recorded by Sir William Dugdale and Dr. Thomas in their book “Antiquities of Warwickshire.”
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At one time the above inspired the romance of writing an historical fiction in my head. I was also excited to find further evidence “Sir John Hubald of Ipsley who married Margaret, the daughter of Sir William Lucie of Charlecoate in Warwickshire.”
The Lucie Family:
His Royal Highness William's (Charles & Diana's son) 28th great grandfather.
Sir William de Lucy, born 1089 in England; died in 1179. He was married to Lady Cecilla, born about 1122 in England and died about 1185 in England.
The de Lucy (of Luce) family were of Norman French origin and took their surname from Luce, Maine in France, but their ancestors could well have been of Viking origin (The Vikings invaded Normandy before they invaded England). They became one of the most powerful families in the north of England in 13th and 14th centuries.
William the Conquerer invaded England from Normandy in France in 1066 and in 1067 appointed Gospatric as Earl of Northumberland. He led the northern nobles in a revolt against King William and in 1069, the King laid waste to the northeast of England Gospatric was ousted as Earl of Northumberland in 1072 and was given lands in Dunbar in Scotland by the King of Scotland. He was also Lord of Allerdale in Cumberland in England. It was the start of over 500 years of fighting between the Scots and the English.
King Henry of England died in 1135 and in 1138, William Fitz Duncan, (William, son of Duncan, grandson of Duncan II, King of Scotland, and Great, Great Grandson of Gospatric, Earl of Northumberland) fighting on behalf of his uncle David, King of Scotland, was at the head of an expedition which marched through his own inheritance in Cumberland, and that of his wife in Cumberland to Craven in Yorkshire, then in possession of the English. . . .
In 1174 Reginald (Reynold) de Lucy (b.1137-1189), son of Sir William de Lucy (1089-1179), a kinsman of Richard de Lucy, Chief Justiciar of England, married Amabil (Annabelle, b 1150), daughter of William fitz Duncan (William, son of Duncan). She was descended from Gospatric I, the Earl of Northumberland (1067-1072). Her grandfather was Duncan II, King of Scots, and her father was William Fitz Duncan, Lord of the Barony of Allerdale. She was from the “House of Gospatric” which was founded by Crinan the Abbot of Dunkeld, and Bethune the heiress of Scotland (c.1000 A.D.) who were also the ancestors of the Washington family of whom, George Washington, First President of the United States of America is the most famous descendent.
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I’m not sure where the above information comes from though I originally found it online. A more accurate view perhaps comes from Wikipedia:
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de Lucy or de Luci is the surname of an old Norman noble family originating from Luce in Normandy, one of the great baronial Anglo-Norman families which became rooted in England after the Norman conquest.. The first records are about Adrian de Luci (born about 1064 in Lucé, Normandy, France) who went into England after William the Conqueror. The rise of this family might have been due to Henry I of England, though there aren't historical proofs that all de Lucys belonged to same family. The family name is Latin, Lucy, Luci, Lucé derive from Lucius, meaning "light", but like most Normans or Anglo-Normans, the origins are probably Viking (Norsemen). - Wikipedia
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Under the circumstances you are a bit embarrassed by the original information which was taken from someone else’s genealogy. However, it is interesting that the de Luci’s were probably Viking, yet DNA-wise you have no Viking blood, at least none from the Viking invasions. The DNA was from your father’s side, Hubbell married Margaret so it would not show up in any case. The Hubbell line is through your great, great, great grandmother Selina Philena Hubbell, born 7 December 1839, Morrow County, Ohio and died 13 May 1913 in Delaware County, Ohio. Her husband was Robert Francis Orndorff, born 19 April 1832 in Virginia; he was a cabinet maker and died in 1922 in Delaware County, Ohio. Here is one of your sources:
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Robert met Selina while learning cabinet making from Selina’s father, Harvey Sherman Hubbell. The marriage took place before the Civil War. According to family letters they were always thought of as a loving couple. Robert was quite handsome, always sporting a beard -- his hair was brown. Selina had dark brown, almost black hair and dark brown eyes.
The above is taken from a paper on the histories of the Orndorff and Hubbell families written by David L. Johnson, Christmas, 1998.
And,
Both she and Robert are in the Hubbell Family History on page 328. Their children were: Idolia B, Harvey S., Howard S. (great-grandfather), Orville W., and Mary E. (Mamie). Mamie married Franklin Johnson.
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I think this is a bit much, Amorella. No one cares about this stuff. Most don’t even care about it even if it is their own family genealogy.
It is important to show your imaginary shadow life. Grandson Owen may want to know what made his grandpa tick. Genealogy is a part of it.
The excitement came, as I have mentioned before, from teaching British literature all those years assuming my oldest blood was German and Viking and it wasn’t, it was in the Isles. I had made an Isle's connection without consciously realizing it. That’s how I see it.
Post. Enough for today. – Amorella.
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